I'm proud to be an owner of a fine Windows computer, thank you very much.

I'm not a mac enthusiust, but If you get it from a wholesale dealer the prices aren't that bad.
The websites prices, though, are outrageous.

For me the OS alone is worth the cost =3...
I'm no computer wizbang and an idiot proof machine is right for me. I've had a crash maybe 3 times throughout my use of my mac and I often have flash ps and maya open at once with little to no lag.

I upgraded my memory myself and am the proud owner of 2 non apple monitors tho.
once apple allows 3rd parties to make computers with their os I'll be happy to switch but for no buying all new software and learning on in my view shakey unprotected os just isn't for me.

But I do hate having to pay twice as much for a computer that is relatively a few years behind. but i'm still happy on my 2005 powerpcG5 and am yet to have issues with it, other than cost.

i agree about the ram..for the record apple owners should but their own ram - not though the apple store. its very easy to install your own.

for the record, all the years and all the macs ive owned, ive had far less problems with them than PCs. hell in the newgrounds office the only computers breaking down and crashing are PCs. (out of about a 50/50 pc mac split).

and you could argue they're not better for graphics, etc. thats a valid argument. I own one simply because I think the operating system is far more streamlined and easy to navigate, crashes less, and is more visually appealing. and to nitpick, macs render fonts slightly differently than PCs, but that's a small detail left up to the individual.

sounds like you should just get a PC. i myself think windows is complete garbage so im happy to pay a premium to get a machine that rarely if ever gives me problems.

woo0tabegah teh ^:-) ^

Haha, that reminds me..
At the moment I'm in a Computer Maintenance class (By which at the end we'll be taking a test to get A+ Certified) and our teacher showed us something about the Mac website.

Since he owns a MacBook Pro (he's satisfied with it he says, I dunno) he decided he wanted a little more RAM. Well, he goes to the Mac website, searches around for more RAM and finds it.

4 GB or Ram -> $600 (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE /WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?n clm=552B35F)

Ok, so that seems a little pricey, he says. But since it's from the manufacture it SHOULD be good right? Well just to make sure, he goes ahead and checks other sites, such as newegg.com

Low and behold, he could get the exact SAME RAM, for around $75-100. That's at least $500 in savings. (I think.. this happened a while ago)

Just goes to show you should always look around before you actually buy :p

--

As far as the Macs being better/worse than PCs: I have not really touched a Mac. I did a couple of times, and it was alright, but I still couldn't get over the one click (instead of two on PCs). So I'll prolly just stay with my wonderful XP :p

The websites price was $3500.
The price I payed was $1999.

Expensive... yes,
Amazing ... yes.
I will never go back to a PC, ever.
Peace.

true , but vista is still the worst os ever

i dont own a mac but i own a windows vista and lets just say almost nothing works with it right and as far as i can tell its just a visual upgrade from xp.

its so bad that if i had to pay a reasonable amount of extra money to be able to get xp i would.

Hey, I know this is totally unrelated, but your avatar pic is stunning!

I can't build a computer.
I did get the 8 Gb of ram.
I also run Windows XP and Linux in my computer.
It has never crashed and it runs very fast for $1999.

I will just as soon attempt to hijack a plane at gunpoint than go out and buy any Apple product.

I agree with you 100% on this.
I would never buy a mac ever.

My school uses macs for all the art and graphic classes and they crash all the time or just completely lock up or stall loading stuff.

I do not know if this is mac related or just my schools fault but using these macs to network between another just causes more problems moving files between them or staying connected to some other machine or what have you.

The OS it self I really do not care for their is more that drives me away then pulls me to likening it.

My teachers tell me that a computer and a mac with the same specs will have the mac perform better on programs such as photoshop, ect.... this i can not believe at all.

PCs=For people who want to actually do things with their computers, as in program, build, upgrade, etc.
Mac=Amazing user interface, and really way easier to use (and to look at) than PC, but the prices of upgrading are outrageous, and it's harder to customize.

But yeah. Some of the prices are crazy. I still love macs, because I don't need a mac pro or anything besides the basics. And for my basic needs, mac is easier to use and faster than a PC. Not to mention SO aesthetically pleasing. :3

Oh, thank you for linking back to that old topic I made about "Is it water on the knee" in that copycat topic. I like people seeing all the funny things I have done on the BBS.

But you don't understand, Macs are for artists!

I study in Multimedia, and my friends can't live one day without reminding me how shit is my PC and how supreme are their macs. Funnily enough, when I ask them why they prefer macs over PC's, they can't come up with any valid reasons.

By the way, the grey mac interface doesn't give me a boner

Look, I like PC's and all, but Macs are the best computers. They come with stuff you need for school to, like Microsoft word. And the new OSX is FAST. I do agree that on the website the price is high, but who the hell cares? I mean, PC's are complicating, and Macs can make it easy, got me?

The only reason I'd get a mac is that just about any good multimedia job worth its salt requires mac experience, and I've had practically none. >:(

Of course, the amount of money one has is usually inversely proportioned to their amount of common sense/thinking power.... usually. People who want an idiot-proof computer would probably think "durrr... Mac!" and just type in apple dot com and slap down whatever amount of money Apple asks them to pay without even considering if macs can be found for cheap elsewhere.

I've been wanting my own computer for some time, but I'd want to earn and save up my own money before making a purchase.

Macs are great computers, but yeah, pricey.

I want one, but Im not getting one because I would rather not spend my whole savings for one.

I have always heard good/bad about both. I prefer PCs and anytime I go to look at getting a MAC I see the price, barf in my mouth a little, and leave. Maybe they are good machines but like you said, why pay the exorbitant price when you could build a BITCHIN PC for the same price.

"i disagree, and i like macs" "Holy crap! theyre to expensive and i can build a faster one!"

the only thing macs have going for them is their nice-looking interface. if only vista wasn't such a piece of crap :P

some of my friends are linux-nerds, and whenever i mention windows, they all say "omg microsoft sucks ass linux is the best," but i don't have any experience with said operating system. what would you say in regards to windows vs linux? they say windows is the shittiest OS ever, but after 7 years of updates and service packs, all my problems have stemmed from my hardware rather than the OS itself.

pardon my double-comment, but in a further rebuttal to thetrixsta's mac-loving comment, there's an open-source version of Word called OpenOffice.org Writer. it's just as good, y'know, only free. OpenOffice.org comes with a whole suite of stuff that MS Office has.

lol @ computer arguments

id have to look into it, but ive seen several price comparisons between a high end mac and pc that were fairly close (that doesnt include a monitor or apple ram though)

it seems like with PCs (from my experience) there's always some hardware compatibility issue that just ruins you week. since apple makes sure the installed hardware and software have no issues from the get go, you usually don't have a problem.

i only had one major issue 3 years ago with my machine crashing, but it turns out it was bad ram i bought from a third party.

just a suggestion, you could try going into an apple store and asking them all your questions, they'd be able to answer better than anybody here.

Okay, I think that most of us would agree that the prices are absolute rubbish, however, the programs which you can use on macs are absolutely amazing. The fact of "Oh but it has better hardware" cannot come into it if it doesn't have the good software, like it comes with on of the best software to make a podcast right from the get-go. Also for almost all musical mixing, you will need a mac as the programs which are best for it, are made for macs as PCs have had problems which macs have never had. Also at my tafe, they only use macs. THey have had no problems for years and the performance it outstanding.

Sure, PCs have their advantages, can get cheaper hardware, play more games, but if you were doing a creative job, Macs can get sooo much better software. So in the end, you can't say "Macs are shit," because it is all a matter of what you want it for, to do normal things or play games, PCs are naturally better, but if you want to make podcasts, record and mix music, and stuff like that, then a mac is better. So seriously, there are no 'better' computers, it's all a matter of what you want it for. Like I only use PCs because i love my games, but i respect macs for their creativity.

Way to spark up the old Mac vs PC debate again... I use PCs more but here are the pros and cons in a nutshell at least as far as I know:

Mac Pros
Generally are more stable systems then the PC (pro PC builders and maintainers are an exception to the rule).

Handles most memory heavy processes (video editing, 3D) easily without you needing to give it a tune up yourself (a point I think you forgot to mention about the PC)

You can count the various viruses for apple macs on one hand.

has a PC simulator so you can run PC only programs on it, the best of both you might say (not 100% certain on this since haven't tested it).

Mac Cons
Has a tiny software library selection compared to the PC.

When things do go wrong with an apple Mac it's generally harder to fix then a PC or at least by yourself

Too expensive? x.x then again if you were taking on microsoft what would you do?

PC Pros

Has an enormous variety of software and to be perfectly honest is the system most developers consider first, since most companies use it (personally I consider this to be 3 good points rather then one).

When something goes wrong with a PC, unless it's serious it's generally easier to fix and/or recover data.

As a general rule PCs are more compatible with files originally created on a Mac then vice versa.

PC Cons

You generally need more knowledge of PCs then you do with macs to get the same kind of specs, mac haters here or not they're generally more idiot proofed now then they used to be

Microsoft operating systems are always running dos in the background you just can't see it, how exactly is that more efficient?

has countless viruses, trojens and spyware you need to protect yourself from if you go online.

Because PCs have so much variety with what they can do they get clogged up with crap more easily, meaning system reinstalls and tune ups are needed to keep things working at top speed.

As with every other operating system developed by Microsoft you should NEVER get their newest OS until the reviews say it's stable, because they always release them before they're really ready.

Although files being easy to recover is a good thing, it's also a bad thing too, the only 100% garentee you destroyed data is by destroying the drive it was put on or by giving it to a specialist data destroying company.

In reference to flash-samurai's comment about mixing music on mac.... have you ever heard of fruityloops? I use it to mix techno on my PC, what about ProTools... since ProTools runs better on PC and it is what professional recording studios usually run I assume you rate garageband as more than what it is, way too simple. It has the lowest production quality of any music mixing software that I have ever seen used. If you use a mac for music mixing, I suggest trying out fruityloops on a PC, it runs better and has way more adjustments for production, of any genre. Yet even with how awesomely better than garageband it is, it is nothing compared to ProTools, though unless you have a recording studio, fruityloops is the best choice for the price.

I don't know about Macs, but a PC standard package should include a priest, because Microsoft is the devil.

I still prefer PCs though.

And do anybody actually know WHY we call microsoft the devil?

Of course not. We have no reason, just act like the next person.

PC > Mac ftw

In reference to HollowSiX, Yes, i have used FruityLoops. I seriously hate it. It is absolutely worthless in my opinion if you are doing anything except for techno, happy hardcore (infact I know someone who writes whole songs using FL Studio) or anything generally in that genre. And Protools? Pales in comparison to Reason. Reason is most likely, the ultimate mixer. I have seen a lot of people use it in mixing studios, and it is waaay more capable of making music for any genre. Garageband is a pretty good mixer just to start with. Thanks for the advice, but I'll stick with Garageband and Reason.

I agree with you 100%.

I used to work for Apple as a Sales "Associate" at one of the first Apple stores, and the whole experience soured the brand for me.

You're right, it's ridiculous how much you have to spend to get a brand new Apple. You can easily build your own Windows or Linux PC for almost half the money. Especially with how incredibly plug-and-play the majority of PC components are. But what can you say, Apple has a monopoly on their own hardware market. You can't go to Fry's or Best Buy and build a Mac PC from scratch. You HAVE to order one through Apple.com or buy one through an Apple certified dealer. Therefore, they're going to price their PC's and components at whatever price they want because they they know they're legion of rabid mac zealots will do anything to say a giant "fuck you" to Bill Gates.

I had to filter through dozens of those mouth breathers every day when working for the Apple store. I was there at ground zero when the iPod was released, and you have no idea how many morons bought a $2,800 G4 Powerbook laptop just because it would go nicely with their new iPod. Of course, it would have worked just fine on a $1,100 iBook, but I guess that wasn't fast enough to surf the web and download email. RRRGH!!!

As a developer who has used Photoshop, Flash, and Illustrator on BOTH machines on a regular basis, I've found OS X to be slower when playing swf files. Even slower when testing in a browser. Apple says Adobe runs faster on Macs, but it's at such a ridiculously small amount that I simply don't notice it. I don't batch-process 1000 High-res PSD files with Gaussian blur like they do in their tests. I just make online games... at 72 dpi... like 99% of all other web developers out there.

Plus, it infuriates me that Apple has such smaller support for PC software. Allowing a Mac to dual boot into Windows because of the Intel processor has been the smartest thing they have done in years. There aren't that many games for Apple as there are for PC. It's hard to find games from independent developers on Macs.

What's nice to know is that not every macky is happy about the latest crap that's come out of Apple. Steve Wosniak is frustrated over the Macbook Air, Apple TV, and the iPhone.

http://apcmag.com/8356/steve_wozniaks _frustrations_with_iphone_apple_tv_an d_macbook_air

The final word: Macs are for people with too much money who are either too stupid to learn Windows or just want a pretty looking computer with free membership to an elitist club of smug, condescending geeks. I am NOT saying that Windows Vista is the better choice. That turd needs to be buried. However, a modern machine running Windows XP could still run laps around any Apple AND cost a fraction of the price.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Personally, I'm a mac fan but that's just me. I do agree with you that some of the prices are jacked up pretty high. I don't endorse using hack-macs at all and neither will I say that they work just as well but for about 200 bucks.

Fair. You're completely right, i just wish i could build a computer. Besides, windows is always better for devolpers anyway. Am right, or what?

I could care less about how much it costs, I'm rich.

RageVI, you just owned Mac fanboy's reasons to buy a Mac.

TL;DR

But you really didn't need to write all of that, most people already know why Macs suck.

If only those idiots who say "Macs are better,they gots no viruses and they is good n stuffs" could see this,I'm sure they'd switch in a heartbeat.

Macs do suck.

I love you.

*waits for bolo to post.*

Yeah, apples suck. w/e.

Why don't you come onto the Mod my life forum where I may ban you and lock your topics. :D

<3

If macs are this bad, then how come Pro Tools is the "industry standard." I see all of these computer music magazines saying "GET A MAC. THERE'S LOGIC AND PROTOOLS. YOU NEEEED IT TO PRODUCE!" And I say the same thing: Its a fucking rip off.

I know there are lots of negative features to Windows having a monopoly, but one good thing that would come out of it would be Universal compatibility. I can run Windows and Linux on one system, but noooo! Mac OS isn't compatible with my hardware! I am not rich, so I happen to run an AMD processor, but guess what? Mac + AMD = nono.

I hate how schools invest so much in Macs. The worst part is how it gets all of the students thinking that Macs are the best, because they are too retarded to figure out how to work a Windows PC. Its horrible.

All I could say is boycott. Too bad Apple rakes in so much from the millions of iPod fans, and iTunes buyers. Do a bit of math, and you can see that it would take over 30,000 dollars to fill up one of the larger iPods with music from iTunes. But that's a different topic (further reading: http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/2007/10 /when-pigs-fly-death-of-oink-birth-of .html).

Anyways, I agree. :)

Macs rule!!!!!

Macs rule dashbord more stuff windows suck

Mac: "Hi, I'm a mac"

PC: "And I'm a real computer"

"There is NO program on the Mac that either isn't offered for the PC as well or has a viable counterpart."

And even if there was, Windows has a Mac emulator.

Macs are a lot of nothing. To be honest, when I think of Apple, all that pops into my head are Ipods.

OMG! That's crazy - Agreed.

xp>osX>vista (for now)

MS Office> apple works

preformance> cool, sleek looking
when our family got a mac G4 from best buy, we loved the sleek design, the swiveling screen, the compact design.

then we turned it on.

been in my room, collecting dust ever-since. everyone's gathering around the beut downstairs, the dell xps700.

sexy, preformance, cost the same, and only crashes 1-2 times a month.

the only thing the mac does now is act as a charger for my Zune (and sometimes even crashes THEN).

moral:

custom pc>pc>dog shit>mac

edn and concur.

Meh. It takes a lot to crash a Mac, in my experience. I personally prefer OS 9.2, but OS X Leopard is pretty good, too. And I'd never buy hard drives or RAM from apple. I'd get some nice cheap ones. I originally wanted to build a Hackintosh, but there are still problems with those, so i bought a macbook pro. the desktops may be super-overpriced, but the laptops are pretty good deals. Over the years, i've owned performas, IIGS's, G3's, G4's, G5's and Macbooks/Powerbooks of every sort, and they've never let me down. And believe me, i overload the computer... i run PS CS3, 3Ds Max, music, and pr0n all at once.

This is the most awesomest argument ever, I put it in Notepad and printed it. Now if anyone says "PC sucks get a Mac" i'll pull out this argument

I'm perfectly happy with with my Windows XP and I'll never switch to OS and I won't switch to Vista until they fix it, damnit. All the time, I hear people whining about their PC crashing on them all the time, and I never have any of the problem they describe!

Anyway I compared an Mac Pro to a Dell XPS two of the best computers for there companies here are the stats:

Ram:
Dell: adding 4 GB added another $50
Apple: adding 4 GB added $500
WHAT THE FUCK THAT'S TEN TIMES AS MUCH FOR THE APPLE!

Hard Drive Port 1:
Dell: 500 GB Seagate Hard drive was included already
Apple: adding 500 GB put another $100 on the bill

Graphics card:
Dell: 512MB Nvidia GeForce Included
Apple: same card $200 more please!

Monitor:
Dell: Included a 22 inch SP2208WFP widescreen Flat Panel Monitor. No charge.
Apple: an Apple Cinema 20 inch, 699$ more thank you!

Cd Drive:
Dell: Included a Dvd-Rom drive and a DVD-R Re-writable No charge.
Apple: The Same thing costed $100 more!

Wireless:
Dell: A 300 Mb/s $70 more
Apple: 50 Mb/s $50 more
Apple does not win here even though it's a little cheaper the card sucks.

Keyboard and Mouse
Dell: Wireless Logitech Keyboard and mouse $40 more
Apple: Wireless Keyboard and Mouse add $50

Operating System
Dell: Vista Ultimate Edition add $150\
Apple: Mac OS X server (Unlimted Clients) $999 more

Dell XPS total: $1,709
Apple Mac Pro: $5,047

Also the Dell was more Custom and could add so much more to it than the Mac

This reminds of those really long but strangely interesting paid programming commercials that come on after I watch TV for a ridiculous amount of time.

Jesus Christ.

"You don't need to buy a new Mac if you want to upgrade!!!!"

"Yeah, you don't. You need to spend as much as it costs FOR a new Mac if you want to upgrade."

"So you'd rather have amazing and expensive than amazing and economical? Right.
Show me any Mac and I could build a MUCH better computer for less than its price."

I'd have to beg to differ. Your definition of "amazing" does not concur with that of the average Mac User. The OS and the software of the Mac, as well as the working environment is the main selling point for most people. I've yet to see a PC that could equal a Mac for ease of use, streamlined efficiency, out-of-box operation, and bundled software.

"So you're saying that a machine that's easy to use is amazing to the average Mac user? I guess my definition of amazing does NOT concur with the "average Mac user" who spends double or triple[+] the money for a machine that does the same things as a Windows-based machine."

I'm saying that a machine that's easy to use increases productivity through a better interface. For me, I generally like to use a computer that doesn't fight back. Perhaps that's fun and challenging for some computer-savvy people, but simplicity is important for me, as I would assume it's important to many other people as well.

It's difficult for me to express how much easier it is for me work with a streamlined interface and aesthetic. I know you've said in the past you had technical problems with Macs, but I honestly have not encountered any of these, and that is why I am such a staunch proponent of them in general. I have, on the other hand, had difficulties with PCs. For me, it's worth the money to circumvent these.

"I've yet to see a computer where "ease of use" is even worthy of a selling point. In the last machine I built, I screwed/snapped all the parts in, popped in the OS installation CD and it worked perfectly from that point forward. You could even say it operated right out of the box ... (In this case, over a dozen boxes). That's right -- The $1000 PC that costs $3,600 when configured on Apple.com."

Ease of use increases productivity. It should be a major selling point. To put it simply: the less you have to navigate, the more time you have to get things done. I find the Windows interface to be crippled in comparison. I understand that you may disagree, and I know this is a matter of personal preference, but I find the disparity to be striking. I am not particularly into the whole build-your-own computer scene. I have more important things to spend time on, and not to mention that I wouldn't have any idea how to assemble the parts for a computer.

The differences I make note of are based purely on observation, and from what I have seen, I like Macs better for the whole experience of a better all-around operating system, and what I perceive to be faster operational speeds.

"Streamlined efficiency in what, Bolo? Using its overpriced hardware? It's too bad that you pay such a ridiculous premium for guaranteed compatible hardware when the OS itself is just as prone to crashing (more, in my experience) than Windows. It's not too hard to look at the specifications of two parts to know they'll work together. Sure, it does add to system stability. Guess what the side effect of that is? An immensely lacking ability to upgrade the machine. Awesome."

There is some hardware that is overpriced. I have looked at RAM prices before, and bought from authorized dealers online other than Apple, because Apple charges far too much for RAM. I disagree on your assessment and generalization of all Apple hardware as being too expensive, though. I'd rather have a nice bushed-metal hardware case / screen, and pay $1200 for it, along with OSX, and iLife, iWork, and all the other great software that I use on a daily basis, than a cheapy see-thru plastic case that glows in the dark and has implanted LEDs, and has to run Windows.

"The bundled software is a bunch of shit. The ability to dick around in iMovie isn't quite appealing when I could buy Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 and have both a much more powerful computer and an assload of money left over."

The bundled software is incredible, and I really take issue with your assessment, here. This media package (iLife, for those who might be reading this, but do not know) comes with some seriously good quality software, such as iMovie (which I find to be a much-more than passable entry level video editing app.) and iPhoto, iWeb, Garageband, and iDVD, iTunes. I use these programs far more often than I would ever have guessed I would, usually on a daily basis.

I also use many Adobe products, which, coincidentally, seem to work better on Macs than PCs in my experience, probably because in the mid-1980s, Adobe entered the consumer software market with Adobe Illustrator, the vector-based drawing program exclusively for the Apple Macintosh. In fact, I use Photoshop more often than almost any other program on my computer. I agree that Adobe products offer more advanced options for the user in terms of graphical complexity, and that's why I use them. But for bundled software, what Apple offers on the Mac is significantly better than the comparable Windows equivalent (Movie Maker? Come on...)

I'll agree that Macs are better for those who aren't "power" users with money to burn, though.

Macs are for people who just plain can't stand Windows, and are willing to pay good money in order to be given a better experience. I have used Macs since the early '90s, and during the days when the company was on the brink of death. But to be honest, OSX and the innovations of the iPod saved the company, and it's become the fastest-growing market share in those particular industries for a reason.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Apple's latest endeavor, the Macbook Air.

Why are ignorant people paying $1800 to get a laptop with no disc drive, no firewire port, no Ethernet port, one USB port, a non-removable battery, and a whopping non-expandable 80 gb of memory (That's sarcasm btw)?

And why are people buying it? Because they think it looks sexy and they believe everything Apple says. And yes, I know about the Remote Disk program, but how are you going to use your CDs and DVDs outside of your house. Are you just going to ask some random guy in Starbuck's if you can use his computer to play your DVDs. I just don't understand.

you make some good points but you really don't the technology. and you dont have to buy the upgrade from apple any pc parts will do.

first of the mac pro uses FD ram not SD this ram is used in work stations and servers.

yes apple charges alot for upgrade but you dont have to buy it from them

RAID card, all real RAID cards cost in the 500++ range, and this uses SIS hard drives, which is new of the highest end in the world.

note most RAID is not real RAID, it's a cheap imitation.

Apple Cinema is out dated but there are some things that make it better than the rest, like apples secondary pixel technology (apple only) it's almost imposable to have a dead pixel. plus apple color correct is the best.

dont compare school computers with home, the education board dose something to them before it goes to the school.

your photoshop problem is just the result of ignorance with the mac controls

better at video/imaging that depends what you're doing, there are some advances with a mac with what you can do, say if i want to capture frames from a video and make a gif avatar, a mac can do this in seconds without any third party software.

macs are wildly used in printing for a reason, you need the mac for the correct colors.

besides in the professional industries (music or video) you have to use macs, pcs don't do the job as well.

if you want a low cost solution pc is fine, but macs are for professionals.

well i'll give one thing you're good at talking

"This post is a bunch of a shit on so many levels"
i can say the same

"so what's your point again?"
there the same FD ram so don't buy it from apple, everyone will tell you that

"Your comment regarding SAS drive systems (not SIS)"
you're right my mistake, i've been drinking

"SATA II and SCSI"
although sata2 is catching up to SCSI, SCSI is still far more developed in RPMs and RAID and liability for long term use.

"And they're not that hard to find."
if they are i haven't found one

"I bet Apple loves you."
i've never seen a apple nor do we have one in the cold white north, and apple doesn't care about what one person say, there 3rd largest computer company in world.

the world stops when apple makes announcement. pretty funny because it's true.

"Way to own yourself with this one"
apples lcd screens are over one year old now, and yes people are saying theres an update coming soon.

"secondary pixel"
funny i can't find it ether, but it works by putting a pixel in between the small space of four pixels on the grid. it doesn't really do anything but keep pixels from sticking.

"http://docs.info.apple.com/articl e.html?artnum=22194"
oh every company has one of those, gezz you got that from the first result on google, lets search dell omg 1million hits, apple 1thousand.

"third party software"
i was still referring to creating animated gif avatars, you blow that way of topic.

"lock up completely when I selected "Go -> Connect to Server""
windows dose it too, because you're not connecting to anything

"not is the first step towards admitting that some Mac computers simply aren't that great."
i don't as many PC workstations any more, since every one uses mac pros
it easy to bitch about about something when there is no PC equivalent
you can try to compare, but there not the same

"Funny, all the software I've seen in the professional printing industry (which is third party software) exists on both platforms"
what dose that have to do with colors, once again of topic

"realistically, is equally dependent on the monitor"
true, but which monitors? how long till i have to have it color checked? will there be dead pixel out of the box?
thats why we buy apple monitors, so we don't have to think about this

"This opinion, while vastly incorrect, is plain shit and won't warrant any further rebuttal than that."
ok then why are you learning with macs? why do the local news paper use macs? why dose my firewire equipment not working on PCs, oh mac.

Video camera... firewire, 16channel auto control surface/mixer... firewire

"I'll stick with my "lost cost solution" "
i can't tell you how to live, but for most people it has never been economical to repair and upgrade a computer.

people who build their own computer is a minority
personal i think a computer should be at least 1 thousand dollars or it's a throw away. but laptops are a different story.

"magically, is a better one."
if it works for you fine, i still use my 5year old pc

"Get rid of your "money = quality" presumption. It's financial cancer."
i've never ever said more money = quality,

buy it because it's what you need, if you need it buy it, if you don't need it don't buy it.

it your going to talk about how apple is ripping people off, don't go off topic

and if you really need a example Australia is getting hit hard.

great read! both the news entry and the comments/counter comments.

the absolute smugness of mac users is what is most irritating in my opinion, as they just come out with the same old speeches.

"macs are easier to use"
"macs are great for graphics and video editing"
"they have no virus"

frankly it's boring. i'd rather pay less and manually plug in wires, put parts together and even deal with simple OS problems than pay ridiculous prices for mere eye candy. a lot of the time it's the simple so called problems that mac users have trouble comprehending, sure it'd be nice if i could plug and play my pc as quick as a mac from day 1 - but the time it takes to set up is more than worth the price tag.

speaking of price tag - the mac adverts give the impression that the target audience are students; yet i don't see a student price tag! it would take months, maybe even years for the average student to save up for mac - when in half the time they could already have a pc. the few mac users i know in person had their mac brought from them by mommy and daddy, which furthers the smugness of mac users.

i was tempted to buying a mac laptop once for video storing and editing, but the price tag is just not worth it.

once again, great read.

sorry for the double post, but i meant

but the time it takes to set up a PC is more than worth the price tag.

rather than

but the time it takes to set up is more than worth the price tag.

HOLY SHIT $1500 FOR 8GB OF RAM? JESUS

And the apple cinema I can get a nice LCD Flat screen for less than $150.
And who needs RAID cards when you can just get a large hard drive.

And my sister wanted a mac laptop, I laughed at her.
Apple think we are a bunch of incompetent idiots.

mac computers turn on in 2 seconds bro.. and less chance of viruses.

I knew macs were shit, but now I have valid proof. B-m'ed.

Mac pros are for extremely rich arses or people with really big computer jobs. You should go for an iMac for £799 or a Macbook for £599. I have 2 iMacs and an eMac (Out of production) and all 3 have been really good. One of my iMacs is 10 years old! Works like a dream. The only other apple rip off (apart from the Mac Pro) is the macbook air. That is a rip off. You pay more money for less material, but you do get: Multitouch, Big screen and easy to carry.

So let's say they didn't cost as much, even on the website. Make everything cheaper. In fact, let's say they're just as good as Windows is at gaming. Would you reconsider this? Or are you just opposing Macs because most Mac users are stuck-up and think they're superior? (PC user here, but I'd rather have a Mac at this point)

PC Prices:

PC, Monitor: £399
Virus Protection: £40
OS Upgrade (Every 5 years): £200 - £500
Broadband: £6 - £25
Modem: £20 - £50
Total (First 5 years): £1019 (Minimum)

Mac Prices:
Macbook: £599
Broadband: £6 - £25
Modem: £20 - £50
Total: (First 5 years): £979

So both are pretty expensive. But you want to go further.

Office: £150
iWork: £69

PC Total: £1169
Mac Total: £1048

But if you want to go for an iMac, it'll be £1248, but you get some nifty stuff:

Time Machine: Super cool automatic backup system
iLife: Possibly the best tools ever
Safari: Super quick web brouser (7x faster than Internet Explorer, Twice as fast as Firefox)
And 150+ other features!

You don't need 4 gigs for a Mac, because Mac uses own RAM for everything that it has standard.

The entire OS (skin included), the widgets...everything. It has it's own RAM for that. The two gigs you have are basicly for everything else.
And I don't know anything specific bout this...but the software is developed that way that it doens't need 4 Ghz to start up a game...or to run it...it can run it at a slower clockspeed....?

I dunno...I don't like Macs either. Too expensive..Can't afford it. And yes...the fact that it works completly irrational, and that you can do certain things ONLY with hotkeys pisses me off.

Anyway.
I just know that a Mac has it's own hardware, is a pretty good brand, but overpriced, not universal, is homosexual, and if it for some reason crashes, it is NOT fixable. You need to get a new one.
Period. No unscrewing, no software to fix it....Go to the store, pray for waranty, and get yourself a new one.

My friend has a Mac (came from Windows) and said he's never going back.

But on the other hand...he's a jew and has too much money.

1 in april and i'm banned?! >:(

Since you built your own comp

What are the specs of it?

Next time try and actually be good at being a mod for the forums and actually look at the shit your locking because what you did was one of the stupidest things ive ever seen. Nothing wrong with my post. nothing at all. Either act responsibly or grow the other half of your brain.

Im sorry I dont waste hours of my life on the forums you little fag. Oh and your mom bitched about you before I slit her throat. Thats right everyone his mothers a bitch!

get off the internet you inconsiderate newfag wannabe.

Hey Rage,

Completely off-topic, but whatever.
You banned me for posting cartoon porn on the BBS, but that was because of my account being hacked, because of the NGchat incident. Since I don't feel like waiting 14 more days, can you unban me? Because I didn't do it in the first place.

shadowknightx complaining about a locked 4 chan thread? LMAO
First time I've ever seen someoen cry about 4chan.

Stay on topic, fuck macs, feel for just their interface is just ackward. Not just because I'm a windows fan, but because just is. I would much rather have windows or linux before mac os.

Haha, I know. I already got my account back. Not really a way of proving it, however.
So, I should just contact Wade about getting unbanned or what?

Also, to stay on topic, I have to agree with what you say. A friend of mine, a big macfag. He pretty much uses all of the above (now busted) myths to claim his right. I love you :)

I have money to waste. Am I allowed to do that?

I mean. I couldn't build my own computer if my life depended on it.

Maybe I'll PM you if I see myself not having enough money sometime. (ha)

Wow, isn't THAT mature?

macs are very nice

i agree, macs are shit. id much rather have a windows

i agree, macs are shit. id much rather have a windows

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/liste n/136588
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/liste n/125372

Bring Sally up, bring Sally down.

Macs really are ridiculously overpriced. thats no secret. But if one can find a good deal on a mac, then its totally worth it. Ive had my share of both worlds and using a Mac is hands down way more enjoyable and less frustrating.

i got question , my thread is spam and all the 20/4 isn't? i saw 99% of the users here is nazis.

Ya, Macs suck!

i hate mac. the new models r ok but i hate mac all together.

oh and i luv ur submission "jesus pranks wendys" =]

The only OS ive ever ran were
windows 98 , and xp , and vista .
i myself am a very avid animator and have always used windows to animate . when i go to school and animate with macs everything feel diffrent and is awkward . and i know its a standard rule to save often when animating but omfg the stupid comp at my school frekkin crashed on me . i said to hell with this and i brought in my lappy and the teacher had no objections . because deep down he knew mac was full of bull . and i myself personally would never in my life spend all that money for that sub par bull that i could get 10 x s cheaper . thank zeus for steering me clear of macs when i was younger =) (and yes i worship the greek gods ) also i would like to add that i thank u for pointing this out gonna go to school and show my friends this .

I'm using PC

Thats all well and good. This isn't a challenge and know that I know nothing at all about computers, but if all that you say is true then why the hell does just about everyone in video editing use Final Cut on the Mac? A good friend of mine who is now lookind for a job as an editor used to build his own computers, and now he just bought a Mac, and I hear from my other friend that while he was working on a movie in Florida that as it was being shot, it immediately got transferred into 2 G4's on set. Is something wrong with these guys, or are Macs actually better for video editing? I'm set to get myself a laptop soon, too. What would you recommend?

Used apple mac's, nothing special. the vista interface is much better and user friendly than mac os x has been to me. Self build systems are great.

On the moment I use Dell and I have to say, Dell is really great ( my experience ) and I have Windows XP, no better OS exists for me, and vista isn't that bad ( once again my experience) and of course, apple just wants money, and microsoft has brought down the price of vista ^^

And sorry for the double post but about the dead pixel thing.

I have a 24 inch screen with 1680 x 1050 here on my desk what is older than 1,5 year now almost 2 years, no dead pixels and I have a pc over here almost 6 years old also from Dell and that screen also has no dead pixels and I have a 7 year old screen also over here that also has no dead pixels and Dell has always freaking worked for me so never say it sucks or is crap and the dell upgrades aren't expensive at all and it also is quality, HIGH QUALITY

I like Macs. Period.

Mac likes to bullshit all of us with their prices. I'll stick to Microsoft.

I'm glad someone finally sees this. The only reason that they're more secure than windows is that no one uses them. The point of a virus is to spread WIDESPREAD havoc. Also You're just paying for the OS. the computers really aren't that great. I will willingly admit that the are good for video editing but they suck for everything else. They don't even support most software.

-Sandy

Error - Your comment was too short. Please add more and try again.

101th comment.

get a window's xp. its working great for me =D

had this for 5 year's, all you have to do is every 6 month's, take off the plastic outer layer and clean the dust with cleaning alcohaul. it oughta work fine after that

omg ur gold in everything

Congrats!

Just upgrade the ram aftermarket, and buy a different monitor!

It's true that the hardware on Macs is worse, but their software is worlds better.

Right now I have an XPS M1330, a FINE piece of hardware, that has to run Vista. It's absolutely ridiculous how my computer works. Vista has basically trashed itself.

I'm switching to an Apple soon, until Windows 7 (supposed to be off the wall crazy) comes out in 2010.

Do you mind if i use this new post against macs for mine? Ill provide a link and credibility.
I do hate macs. Just wish they werent given to schools for free.

You're a cheapskate, eh? I still say it's better to go and spend $2000+ for a Mac rather than buying $2000+ worth of drugs. I totally agree that the Mac Pro is overpriced. The other Mac hardware is reasonably priced, however. MacBook- $1200 iMac- $1300. The base spec are pretty good, and you can get a high-end iMac for about $2000. Upgradeability? The hard drive and RAM are user-replaceable on nearly all Mac models. Besides, most people don't bother upgrading, even with PC's. My dad's a photographer, and he's rather computer savvy, yet somehow, there were over 100 viruses on the computer last time I checked, and there's a firewall and anti-virus on there. Not to mention my dad's computer also got hacked twice. How do you explain that? My MacBook Pro cost me $2000, which isn't even that much. I upgraded the RAM with Kingston memory, which didn't cost much at all. However, I prefer the clean Mac OS X interface over the cluttered Windows interface, but that's just my opinion. And I've been using Windows since I was 5, and using a Mac since I was 10. I dunno what's with your school Macs, they're probably bloated and full of the trash that students download onto them. Macs are like sports cars, meaning they run really nicely and look good, but you need to maintain them properly. Mac laptops are generally good deals because of their reliability. One of my friends has had a 12" PowerBook for about years, and he tosses the thing in his backpack every day, with no protective casing, and it still looks good and works fine. The Mac Pro is overpriced, and in my opinion, only for professionals who prefer OS X. I couldn't agree with you more about the Cinema Displays. They quality seems good for me, but I can get the same good quality from a cheap Dell monitor. That's the end of my little presentation.

you are god

Oh my god... you are right. Well I'll stay with my KUbuntu Linux. I have the same things as mac and pc users have, for free. Have fun getting ripped off Mac people.

Full on man! I thought iPods were a bit expensive, but that's insane! The Apple liscened iPod headphones are around $50 bucks a pair (obscene!) and those broke after two months of using them. I found a $10 pair that was more durable and sound 3 times better!

Man, those prices are insane. If you can build a better computer fro a fraction of the cost of one of those Mac Pro's, consider OSX86 if you REALLY still want the Mac computer. Yes, a less costly, but still awesome computer CAN become a mac. This, however, can be classed as 'illegal'. But spending that much on a mac computer is fucking ridiculous. I mean, thay're only good if you buy the awesome features with them, but not many people have that much $$$ on them, so they're stuck with the piece of shit Macs, much like those that exist in your school, most likely.

If you don't want to get ripped off by the outrageaus prices of a mac, but still want one, then OSX86 really is the way to go here. Then you can just multi-boot to Windows if Mac OS pisses you off. Hell, if you get arrested. you can sue them for outrageous pricing if you're so inclined.

i really don't care about what this guy is posting. NG is not a question box.

I consolted my brother (he does fancy stuff with computers for Chevron) and he did advise me to go the PC route in part because of price, compatibility with 3rd parties, and overall value. He did tell me that the OS for apple was bit more streamlined (I think its just a matter of personal opinion) but as far as my OS system, Vista, I've had zero problems. I've been running it for about 6 months now, and I haven't crashed once. So I don't know what all the complaints are about.

Mac is an expensive Linux.

EDN

hello

Well, I like the mac background and the toolbar at the bottom.
*cough*Windows Blinds*cough*
You've just confirmed my suspicions that Apple is a big ripoff.

Fuck you, Mac rules, boner-face.

LOL, just kidding. I hope you don't delete me because I really did it as a late April Fool's prank.

I have meant to for some time now.

Well i know now not to buy a mac or other Apple computer software.

I've worked on a few Macs and MacBooks so far, they never crashed on me. Plus, I found them pretty easy to navigate (multiple desktops can be fun! ;) ).

BUT! I would never buy a Mac myself, because they are so insanely priced, as you showed in this post. I don't get why I have to pay $300+ bucks just for the Apple brand. And it's the same thing with ALL Apple products. Just look at the iPod... I mean, $280 for a 8GB iPod touch?
I currently have a 4GB MP3-Player and guess what? I payed less than $30 for that! Ohh, it doesn't have a touch screen... but seriously, a touch screen doesn't satisfy that insanely high price of the iPod touch.

And speaking of the iPod touch... it's another thing that annoys me about Apple. First, they release the iPod. Then they wait a few month, take away a few things from the iPod and then they release the iPod nano. And all the fanboys that already own a regular iPod run to the stores and buy an iPod nano...
Then Apple waits another few months, takes away the play button and releases the iPod shuffle... and all the fanboys... yeah, you get the idea.

And what about the iPhone? It has a nice display, all right. But other than that it has no functions that my old mobile doesn't offer, too. I can surf the internet (yeah right.. who uses a mobile for that anyways?), I can take pictures and I can phone people (well, that's what a phone is for after all, right?). And I even can type without having to use a stupid touch screen.

Ok, enough with this rant. You posted what I was thinking here. ;)

Well gee, maybe if more people bought Macs, they'd be cheaper. I highly doubt Windows machines would be so cheap if only 4% of the market used them. Apple has to raise their prices because otherwise, they'd be bleeding out. Also, my experience with Windows has been shit. Vista sucks though, because by default it's way too distracting, and if you turn off everything, it looks like a Windows 95 machine. Mac OS X is pleasing to look at (IMO), and provides the perfect balance between eye candy and usability.

Also, I don't know much about Windows, but can you assign a keyboard shortcut to almost every function on a Windows computer? (I mean in the OS itself, not in a program). Macs you can navigate with very little use of the mouse, while Windows forces you to do most navigation with a mouse.

Holy shit, you're right, that's ridiculous.

well, there you have it:

mac (it doesnt deserve a capital "m")= EPIC FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!

I am elated to have a Windows XP, and now I have never been elated-er.

Sure, sure. Macs have some shiny outsides, some lightweight laptops, and some fanboys who obviously never looked at the REALITY of the "Better side." But, really, what do they have, REALLY, in comparison?

Yes, macs suck cock. I am actually ashamed to have one sitting in my basement. But, nevertheless, I liked it back when you could play Age of Empires on it, and use Garageband, but that's mainly it.

I already made an agreement with my dad. If I ever want to spend my money on a mac, unless they REALLY came out with a better computer, [Hehe, that will probably never happen.] then he slap me, then talk me out of it.

Anyways, cheers on sticking it to the Macs.

Thank you, now I know not to buy from apple.

Bit unrelated but my friend wants a PC. He currently has a 1200$ mac, with 1gb of ram. (Basically he wants to play games with me and other guys) A couple nights while attemtping to run Windows on bootcamp, he broke his comp. I. Dislike. Mac's. Greatly. They're shitty. God damn right click wasn't working on his Logitech mouse for it, and ctrl+click wasn't either.

Oh and completetly forgot, Zune's are a Helluva a lot cheaper then Ipods, with more memories. Mac's. are gay.

You obviously don't know good computers.

But... My mommy bought me my mac...

I hate MACs.

Yeah... Although I've been using Mac since my dad bought the family an old Power Mac 10 years ago, I do see how Apple is incredibly overpriced. You see, this March, I went to an Apple store and bought a 2.0 GHz Core 2 Duo Mid 2007 iMac for $1199, plus $100 dollars for 1 extra gig of memory. Then when I came back to town (the nearest Apple Store is in Jacksonville, nearly 200 miles), one of my friends who has an Ailenware computer showed me it's website. The computer that Alienware sells for exactly the same price completely OWNED my Mac's specs. Then he showed me the computer that his dad had built for him and it was impossibly incredible, again, all of the parts costing the same as my Mac.

I think Mac owners are paying for design; the iMac itself looks incredible, no tower, very few wires, built in camera and microphone. But I think I've learned my lesson, and the next computer I get will be built with my own hands. I just wish I could put the Mac OSX on it for dual boot, it's just that Apple has made it illegal to put their OS on a non-Apple manufactured system. So for now I'll stay away from Apple until they eventually lower their prices.

Ah, but i did find out one of Apple's dirty little secrets. You know how you can't upgrade the graphics card of an iMac? Well, theres a Mac repair shop in my city and I asked them about that. They showed me the Apple Part Replacement Order form and they have card replacements. Here's the thing though. A simple ATI Radeon 2600 XT is $200! A Nvidia Geforce 8800? $300! And you can't replace the iMac's card with just any card, Apple has a modified PCI-e port deep inside the computer. I'll give the upgrade a shot (just won $300) and see if its worth it.

I recently got a macbook for university next year which costed (my dad) about 1300 bucks. After seeing some PCs online I agree the price is ridiculous. Then again, I got a free computer, so I'm not complaining.

I completely understand where you are coming from, yet most people have serious trouble with PC's and end up spending more than what a mac costs. I spent at least $3000 on getting my laptop fixed. My MacBook, has never broke once, and has always been on my side. I do hate the fact that apple overprices everything. I mean seriously, 1500 for 8 gb of ram??? And I was in the apple store, and let me tell you, never shopping there again. I absolutely hate the prices they have, yet the apple store was full. I have never had a good time from a PC, and I always find myself deleting files found on my brand new ones, because it is full of useless shit. I have tried buying from computer makers like yourself, and they sold me shit. If I could get a mix between apple and PC that would be great. If I got a PC hardware you built and the Mac OSX I'd be set. I hate the windows interface. But I see that you have had bad experiences with Mac and none with windows. You have been lucky. I'd like to get a computer off you.

When will people put all of these silly "Mac vs PC" debates behind them and accept Linux into their lives as their personal lord and savior

Build...me..one? Please? Seriously ... D: I need a new computer, this apple sucks.

I own a windows - they're way better. I mean Macintosh sounds like some kind of vegetable farm. (But then again...)

the university that my mom used to go to had got rid all of their old Computers (except the stone age ones) and replaced them with 10 old imacs and 5 old CRT apple computers saying that they were better then the windows 98 computers yet the PC's only had 1 or 2 BsOD or other problems every 2 years while on the first 2 days 3 of the mac computers already had "out of order" signs on the screens while the ancient DOS computers from the 70's were still going strong.

4 years later those guys had a ton of mac computers replaced and they still think apple is better then windows in every way.